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Sorry Sonny, It’s Time To Go!
by 15211Advocate ~ June 19th, 2008. Filed under: Blight, Business, Crime, Neighborhood watch.
If you were listening to the news on KDKA this morning you know by now there was a shooting at Sonny’s Place on Shiloh St. last night that resulted in the death of a 23 year old kid from Carrick.
Police are looking for suspects after a shooting at a Mount Washington bar claimed the life of one man overnight.
The shooting happened around 12:30 a.m. at Sonny’s Place located in the 300-block of Shiloh Street.
According to police, witnesses say two groups of people got into an argument at the bar before the shooting.
Authorities say a man reportedly pulled a gun and fired several times hitting one man.
Officials have identified the victim as 23-year-old Brandon Alton, of Carrick. He reportedly suffered wounds to the torso area.
He was pronounced dead a short time later at Mercy Hospital.
Police say they have questioned witnesses and continue their search for the gunman.
Sonny’s Place has always been a nuisance bar, but this is the last draw. It’s time for Sonny’s Place to go bye-bye!
This is a developing story. We will be on top of it with information on what we as residents of Mt. Washington can do to shut this bar down.
If you have any information about this shooting please contact 911. We will not stand for this in our 15211 any longer.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:40 am
There is a MWCDC meeting tonight at 7pm, Senior Center, lets talk about all the crime and violence we’ve had here in the past few months. Also, a petition will be started to close down Sonny’s….
June 19th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Amanda:
We’re in complete support of that and we’ll post the petition here if you’d like.
Thanks for taking the initiative,
MG
June 19th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Just heard a lot of the media was around Sonny’s just now. I would not doubt they were talking to the MWCDC, their office is only steps away. Find it interesting that the owner of Sonnys was against Packs & Dogs from opening! Please post the petition. We will also have it at the meeting tonight.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:01 am
But where will I play beer pong on a Thursday night? Where???
Maybe Packs & Dogs can step up and fill the void. Tuesday: two-for-one hot dogs. Wednesday: peer pong tournaments. Thursday: craft beer tastings. Friday: 70s and 80s night.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Amanda:
Can you submit the petition through the contact form?
Thanks, MG
June 19th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I have found out that detective John McBurney 412-323-7777 and Sgt. Craig Campbell (same phone number)would probably be our contacts regarding nuisance bars. They both will be in their office at 6:00 tonight. After talking to them, we will decide the best way to go to start the ball rolling to get Sonnys closed. We need to find out the best way to word the petition, or if its even necessary. Unfortunatly, this should have been started a long time ago, because this takes time. But, we still need to attend the MWCDC meeting tonight !! Maybe they can be invited to next months meeting??
June 19th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Bill- If you’re trying to be funny, you’re not.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:32 am
It’s obvious that the owner of Sonny’s is a very inexperienced and immature and has no business running a bar. I say yank his liquor liscense forever. He should never be allowed to own another one. EVER. This isn’t the first time there has been problems there.
Quite simply, they have to go.. it will make our neighborhood safer. We need more responsible restaurant and business owners to be in that space. I hope Lenny from Redbeards buys it and cleans it up.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Are the MWCDC meetings open to the public, or must you be a member?
June 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
The meetings are open to the public, but please become a member if you’re not. Membership is less that $10.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
This place has definitively been a sore-spot in our neighborhood for too long. Pressure could also be placed on the owners and patrons of this establishment by forcing police to ticket/tow patrons that insist on blocking traffic by parking on the opposite side of the street or in front of the fire hydrant across from the entrance. While it might seem petty, I am sure any confrontation with police might dissuade those patrons who might want to avoid confrontation with the police. Hopefully, they won’t come back.
June 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Sonny’s Place HAS taken certain steps to try and stop certain people w/ not so good repitations from staying at its bar over the last 2 years. I have seen numerous people banned from ever coming back. They also enforce this very well. I frequent the place often and, belive it or not, I have NEVER witnessed even a fight in my ten years there. Most of the patrons are hard working people who come by after work to have a beer. Any bar after midnight has the potential to have problems, I don’t care where they are located. Ever been to Sloppy Joes? Someone please tell me what make’s that bar a class act or at least not mentioned anywhere on here as having “shady people” as well. I’m literally scared to go in the place sometimes. Sonny’s place is owed by a woman and has been in business since the early 80’s. I’d say maybe they do know how to run a bar Advocate. Fine, shut it down. Wonder where they will go next. Gee….maybe down a block to the other 3 bars. Mt Washington has been plaqued by shootings that have increased over the last 3-5 years. Maybe its a representation of Mt. W instead of a catalyst for crime as some of you have stated.
June 19th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Damn straight. I used to go into Sonny’s Place everyday when I lived on the mount for two years. I to never witnessed any wrong doings or violence. The place is family owned and a lot of the family works there. Does anyone think they wanted this to happen? It’s not good for any Business. What is Sonny’s to do, stupid people do dumb things. But I guess you all just have to blame someone. Peace.
June 19th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
I honestly don’t think it’s Sonny’s fault. I’m sure the environment didn’t help but it’s not as though these things aren’t happing all around here. Removing Sonny’s place won’t make a huge difference in the direction the Mt. Washington area is going. The bottom line, I personally believe, is a stronger police presence on the mountain. Can the city afford it? I duno. I feel the city has turned its back to the areas just south of Grandview. Now that these sort of crimes are hitting close to the big tourist attraction perhaps they’ll step it up. Time will tell, meanwhile I suggest vigilance.
June 19th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Glad you brought that up. Sloppy Joe’s is just as bad if not worse. I agree. We should try to class up Shiloh and Mt. Washington and get rid of these nuisance bars.
The guy that was shot was from Arlington, not Mt. Washington. Wish he would have stayed home and out of my neighborhood. Sorry but we aren’t going to agree, the owners are responsible ultimately on who they hire to work there, let in the place, vibe it gives off. Every thing hinges on the owners. Simple as that.
Do they have a bouncer?
June 19th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I don’t know. They should get an off duty cop like Le Mont and bars on the south side.
June 19th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
yes, if they survive this round of nuisance they should be forced to have a cop on duty, and pay for him/her.
June 19th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Good riddance Sonny’s.
June 20th, 2008 at 8:27 am
I have lived on Mt. Washington for 10 years now. Just in the last WEEK I have had a shooting 2 blocks away, my car keyed in front of my house, the shooting in Belzt. today and the shooting at Sonnys. The hill is going to hell. I hate to say it but I’m moving. This was preplanned before all of this happened, but it sure makes my decision look better and better. And I fit the demographic of 25-35 w/ a wife (both w/ M.S. in Science) and one kid that puzzles the hell out of everyone why I’m here. That’s the first question I get when someone finds out I’m from SC…..”why did you move here?”.
June 20th, 2008 at 8:35 am
That would also be a pretty fine line in the sand you are drawing in the sand between Beltzhoover/Allentown (and other REALLY close neighborhoods) to Mt. Washington. I’m closer to there than to Shiloh St.
June 20th, 2008 at 8:37 am
Well SC good luck to you.
We hate to see you go, but I’m not going to let a bunch of thugs run me out of my neighborhood. I’m in it for the long haul and in the end we will win. It’s not going to happen overnight, don’t get me wrong.
Anyone else with me?
June 20th, 2008 at 8:38 am
I wish instead of “moving” - people would stand up and fight back…
We can all just keep moving to the next neighborhood until issues happen there and move again and again and again but why not stand up and push back…
June 20th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Geez 15211advocate - I think we were writing at the same time. I’m with you - I am not standing back and taking this crap.
Fight the absentee landlords who do not do background checks. Call 911 and 311… Use your darn camera phone…
People stand up and take some initiative!
June 20th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Cameras on Shiloh would have really been nice to have the other night huh?
I say we all chip in and help pay for survalliance cameras to keep an eye on Shiloh St. and our other business districts. If the police aren’t going to put extra people on the street up here, the least we can do it record the activities to that when something like this happens we can be like John Madden and do an Instant Replay!
June 20th, 2008 at 8:45 am
I’m for that. Maybe we can do a fundraiser with the CDC for security cameras and signs that read “WE ARE WATCHING YOU”
June 20th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I’m with those who refuse to move. Partially because I do love it here, partially because moving is a giant pain in the butt, but mostly because I agree that if all of the good, law-abiding people move, a neighborhood will just fall apart. Moving isn’t the way to solve anything. I do agree that if would definitely make you feel safer, but it’ll only harm the neighborhood in the long run.
June 20th, 2008 at 9:18 am
CTRN: As I hope everyone knows by now, we are doing a Big fundraiser for the MWCDC on Friday, July 11. Also, 15211Advocate: Should’nt the Main Street Task Force sort of get involved in this. Do business owners go to those meetings??
June 20th, 2008 at 9:41 am
We plan on doing an article about the fundraiser, so keep an eye on that one! It should be a blast!
I wonder how many business owners will actually attend the fundraiser. Probably not enough.
June 20th, 2008 at 10:04 am
As seedy as Sonny’s is (yes I have been in there a few times) compared to the clientelle at Sloppy Joe’s, Sonny’s is a class joint. I do agree that they should work to make the bar better and up grade their patron base but just shutting them down may not be the fairest option.
They have been up here for a long time and if they would get involved in the community more they could get more support. I know in the past they have been to CDC meetings and have shown some involvement.
As far as the CDC fundraiser is concerned it is $125. a ticket which is steep for many people and I for one will not raise money for the CDC as long as the current regimeis in place. Better government on the Mt will lead to more participation by those of us who do not want to fund the idiot in charge.
While your dialing 311 or 911 mention Sloppy Joe’s and help clean up Shiloh.
June 20th, 2008 at 11:25 am
While we’re at it, why don’t we all try and close down CoGo’s as well?
THERE’S a nuisance if I ever saw one!
My best friend’s husband was attacked at CoGo’s. My own husband has had to escape many bad situations there. We won’t even step foot in that place anymore for fear of our own safety! And they have obviously done NOTHING to ensure the safety of their customers.
I used to frequent Sonny’s quite often, and I never once even saw a fight there. Do some shady characters go there? Sure. Name a place that doesn’t have them.
And once it did start to become a bit seedy, they took every step they could to try and deter these people.
And “these people” that everyone keeps referring to…I can only assume who you are referring to… Am I wrong? Did you know Sonny’s removed ALL rap/r&b/hip hop music from their juke box machines? Do you realize if they tried to refuse every one of “those” customers that came in, we’d have a whole ‘nother issue everyone would be squawking about?!
As someone else said: If you shut Sonny’s down, wonder where “they” will go next. Gee….maybe down a block to the other 3 bars.
I live within a 2-block radius to all these recent acts of violence and now I’m afraid to even go out and check my mail, let alone leave the house. I have a 4 month old baby that I can’t even take out for walks. Heaven forbid I go anywhere and I’m in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I’ve already contacted my landlord to let him know I will be breaking my lease to head for the suburbs. I shouldn’t have to live in fear. And I can’t help but think it will only get worse before it gets better.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Mt. Dog, yes the fundraiser is a but pricey but then it wouldn’t be a fund raiser i guess.. and don’t punish the CDC because of it’s incompetent board president. There are good people staffed there that get a pay check every two weeks and they work their butts off to try to do the work that the pres isn’t doing. They are the reason I’m going to the fund-raiser. I hope you plan on voting in October also.
1521-1, the people that were involved in the violence over the past week aren’t even from Mt. Washington, they are coming up from other bad neighborhoods. I heard today that the shooting on Monday might be related to the murder at Sonny’s Place. Point is, they are coming up to Sonny’s for a reason and that is why I would like to see the place closed for good. We were all just waiting for this to happen, it wasn’t a question of if, but when.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Like the old saying goes, the Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, I think that is what we are dealing with at Sonny’s.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
So I guess my question now is, how do you think you are going to stop people from coming to the Mount? Shutting down Sonny’s isn’t going to stop the drive-by shootings, or the nuisance we call CoGo’s….
June 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
But it’s a start! which is more than we’ve seen up here in a long time. It’s time for the residents and good people of Mt. Washington to stand up for their community and stop ignoring these issues.
No one will have the perfect solution. Let’s use this site as an Idea Factory and come up with realistic goals and how we can accomplish them.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Look, I’m moving because of family issues………read my comment again. If things were different in regards to my extended family, I would probably stay. And having heard more from witnesses, a bouncer would have made NO difference. It was IMMEDIATE. The guy/guys came from the back room to the front and it was over in 2-3 seconds. So far i’ve learned we should build a wall around Mt. Washington and keep “outsiders” out (probably should shut down the inclines too to keep other “outsiders” from sneaking up). Then we should shut down a bar or two and the violence will simply go away. Great plan people!! I would guess that 70% of people that go to Sonny’s go to the other 3 bars so what good does that do? 1521-1more person leaving is right about the rap being removed….I didn’t want to say it since I would have to deal w/ bigot comments on here. The answer is more involvement from the community…..and by that I don’t mean looking for ONE scapegoat!! Never underestimate the power of ignorant people in large groups.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
SC if you owned the bar would you take responsibility for something like this happening in your establishment?
June 20th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
1521-1more person leaving…
When you see things going wrong, do you say something or call someone? I have two small children and I say something, call, whatever. BUT I’ll BE DAMNED if I’m going to let some punks run me out of my neighborhood. They will be going - not me.
Again, you can’t just sit back in fear. It will happen in the “burbs” too. Wherever you decide to live, I hope you stand up and speak up.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Can we try “never” underestimate positive change in large groups either???
June 20th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
1-more person leaving:
While I understand you’re moving for the sake of your family’s safety, I’m sorry you feel the only choice you have is to leave. Unfortunately, there’s nothing anyone can offer you/us in the way of a quick fix. What we’re dealing with here has been years in the making. And I would argue that this is more an economic issue than a race issue (although they are tied together sometimes I know).
I don’t like CoGo’s either and I’m not crazy about Fox’s Pizza on that corner. I have to wonder if these business owners are just so fed up with the criminal element in the community that they don’t even try anymore. And so criminal activity continues and so on and so on. It’s a chicken and egg scenario.
As far as Sonny’s is concerned, I found this article about a local bar in California.
http://www.morganhilltimes.com/news/216413-bar-looks-to-tone-down-clientele
You’ll see that there are two things at play here that enabled the bar’s clientele to change. 1) The owners recognized the need to make some changes and 2) The police took an active role in helping them.
Only you can decide what’s best for you, but if you do end up staying—there are people here that care about the community and are trying to make improvements.
MG
June 20th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
There was an incident a few weeks ago, at night, where a girl was out in the street screaming and yelling and throwing a fit. At one point she even yelled to whoever she was on her cell phone with, “I have a f*cking ounce of weed on me and I’m on probation!!!”
This tantrum went on for a good 30 minutes until I called the police. They said they were already handling it. Another 30 minutes later and finally one patrol car pulls up, hands her something (for some reason I think whoever was with her took her keys and ran off) and then they left.
Then there’s a group of kids every night that hang out on the side porch of a home that leads to an alleyway. These kids do not live there. But every night there’s a new group sitting there. Screaming. Swearing. Blowing off firecrackers. Leaving their trash strewn about. I called the police once and they never came by. I won’t say anything to these kids in fear that they will in turn retaliate against me and my home.
Obviously nobody else is trying to do anything about it either. The people who own the home that the kids hang out at are too afraid to even say anything!
I think it’s such a shame that this area is what it is…and I know it could be great, but I can’t take the risk while waiting around for that to happen.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Have you called 311 about it? also if you live on the bruce krause side of Mt. Washington, call his office and complain. He is all about trying to get this area cleaned up.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Loaded question. I would take responsibility just as they have in that they have tried to stop this crowd from coming in. I don’t believe they have ever had any problems w/ guns prior to this, but I don’t live at the bar. I have never been scared to go in there though. As far as AFTER the shooting, I would personally look into finding a way to be more proactive towards people that would cause problems, but how can you do that on a glance. If you turn 1 in 10 people down just cause they don’t “look right” or are African American (and are completely sober), you have a lawsuit. I have seen several very drunk people there and as soon as the bartenders see they are too drunk or get the idea that they might get violent they cut them off and escort them out. I have never seen a situation get out of hand. But you can’t stop people from doing what stupid people do. Especially spur of the moment 2 second violence. It wasn’t like this situation was escalating over time. As I said before, 50-70% of the same people go to all of the bars….the other 30% are the people they were trying to stop from coming in a “politically correct” way. If you say….require metal detectors…..might as well gear up for the whole block getting them too.
But I’m the wrong guy to ask that too. I obviously didn’t go to college for 7 years to own a bar. Crowds are not my specialty, but I do know that killing one bar isn’t going to make the problem go away. And that’s not progress. The “problem” will just move to the next one….I guess shut it down too by your logic. Its a “start” of idiocy, not logic.
Sure, Sonny’s can do more to try and resolve some concerns, as do other bars on Mt. Washington. I see the rush to shutting it down as a very predictable but unlogical reaction given the situation. I would agree that if things got worse THEN we might agree. But, as things stand now, I feel Sonny’s should be given a chance to see what they have to offer to help find a “realistic” resolution to a City/Mt. Wide problem. I wish I could underline realistic here…..
June 20th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
No No No. I am not moving because I am SCARED of anything. I am leaving to move to NY since my mother-in-law has lost both her husband (58) and son (23) in a matter of 2 years. We are the only family she has left so we are moving to NY to be w/ her.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Maybe you were talking to someone else….sorry…….I saw family and leaving and didn’t notice the title.
June 20th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I’ve lived here for many years mt. dog and believe me I will be very suprised when a new president of the cdc is elected in oct. and all you people come out of the woodwork and volunteer! Just an excuse. Anyone that is passionate about their community as a lot of us are, it does not and should not matter who is president of the cdc.
June 20th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
1521-1.. I live very close to the park / basketball court / baseball diamond off of Norton street. I could go on forever about the activity that goes on there. I’ll say this, The times that I have called police I have seen a very swift response. I don’t notice a very regular patrol.. but when I’ve called I wasn’t ignored..
June 20th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Was the guy who got shot a regular at Sonny’s?
News reports claim that the victim may have been involved in the shooting of the 15 year old girl. Maybe it was revenge for what happend to her. I’ve never been to Sonny’s so I’m not familliar with the place.
Pure speculation: Maybe this guy was responsible for what happened to the girl and this was retailation.
June 20th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
ThatDude
I haven’t heard anything about him being involved with the drive-by shooting ( yet at least ).
However, he was involved in a major incident a few years back.
June 20th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Nice spelling ThatDude. Slow down and read your post before you hit submit. you dummy.
Anyways, I hope that this was the last time we have to hear about a shooting in 15211. Any please, if you see something that doesn’t look right, don’t be afraid to call 911 - it gets results!
June 20th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
this argument about where are “they” going to go if sonny’s is closed down is ridiculous! why are”they” (low lifes) going to Sonny’s and sloppy joes…and possibly nikos and not Redbeards, the shiloh, or Nakama, forbes field tavern, Mad mex, ellsworth avenue, etc in the first place? Its because “they” know they can blend into the scene and and find the kinds of trouble they are looking for and get away with it. I am also sure “they” didnt just stumble on these places by accident and just all of a sudden start flocking to these places. They were tipped off that more S$#! went on in there that attracted them to it, the employees were in on it as well and not because they had rap songs on the jukebox or malt liquor.
Peace
June 22nd, 2008 at 12:40 am
according to police report, the victim and the shooter were NOT customers of Sonny’s. The victim descided to go to Sonny’s for the first time that night, anf the shooter got word he was there… so the shooter showed up and killed him. It could have happen anywhere the victim showed up, the post office, foodland, redbeards, Sloppy’s, ANYWHERE… it just happened to be Sonny’s that night. Sonny’s has been more involved in the community, giving money to charity, little league, after school programs, than anyone. They have tried to improve the appearance on the outside but their landloerd won’t let them. They do what they can.
June 22nd, 2008 at 1:33 am
“you” sound an awful lot like a person that is prejudiced when making groundless conclusions about what “they” do with their time.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:34 am
Groundless conclusions? Ask people involved with the CDC and they will tell you what they have done over the past 25 years to help Mt. Washington… and they have given more than the CDC knows about. Anytime some organization has come to ask for a donation, help, gifts… they’ve given generously because they are from Mt. Washington… they are part of the community. What other bars haven given back? Sycamore, do have problems with all of the bars, or just Sonny’s? Being you live so close to all the other bars, why do you blame Sonny’s? All of the bars share the same crowd.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:28 am
promount, i don’t have a problem with Sonny’s, i was referring to East Edge’s comments. settle down chief.
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 am
promount:
I have to disagree with you on your theory that all of the bars share the same crowd. Of course there is always crossover, but Sloppy Joe’s has a different crowd than Redbeard’s and Redbeard’s has a different crowd than Sonny’s. I think that’s just the nature of bars in general. People hang out where they feel most comfortable. Which is why it IS significant that the shooting took place at Sonny’s and not any of the other bars.
And I don’t think anyone is questioning the owners of Sonny’s love of Mt. Washington or their willingness to help out when asked. For me, this isn’t a personal attack. It’s the fact that they are not running their business as if it’s a vital part of a business district that we’re all trying so hard to improve.
MG
June 22nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I was going to say a lot of what promount already stated about the facts surrounding the shooting and what the family has done and continue to do for Mt. Washington.
I think the real problem here is guns and drugs everywhere around us.
If we could have metal detectors everywhere we go that would be great. But they’re not. The person next to you on the bus, behind you in the check-out line…etc, etc, etc could have drugs or a gun on them.
Think about it! This world is alot different than when we were kids.
The policeman at the meeting was correct when he said we need more
police on the streets because there is more crime.
Also when you have a good portion of housing in 15211 HUD and Section 8 you start to attract more seedy and unwanted people into our neighborhood. Tell me, where do you expect them to bank, shop or socialize-in their own neighborhood!!!!
Trying to close Sonny’s is not the answer. Sonny’s was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:02 am
I say they share the same customers because as I frequent the bars on Friday and Saturday night with my friends, I see the same people everywhere I go. Of course there are the dedicated customers who stay in one spot, but alot of the clientel move from place to place until they find the fun spot for the night… it may be Sonny’s… it may be Sloppy’s,… it may be Nicos. If Sloppy’s is empty, they will travel up to Sonny’s… and vice versa.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:24 am
OK Can we stop bashing SONNY’S First of all no bar in the city of Pittsburgh or even in the US can be a perfect bar every bar at some time have had problems but some of them have over come the obstacles as will Sonny’s because if any of you know this family they are all about the community. I want to point out to the MWCDC that they need to become proactive instead of reactive as it has been stated that they have had numerous complaints about Sonny’s prior to the shooting and now it seems that they want to do something about it. So let’s start with the number one problem the Development Office. And if you look at the name of this organization it is to help develop the community and obviously they seem to be destroying the community by saying things that they have not done. What would it take for people to realize that in this day in age no where is one hundred percent safe. When there is shooings in the projects do we close them? When there is shootings at restaurants do we close them? When there is shootings at schools do we close them? NO NO NO we do not we try to find a way to solve the violence in those communities. For as much time as all of you are spending BASHING SONNY”S maybe you could put together a plan to decrease crime and not by destroying an establishment that has been there for over twenty five years. I really feel that the people on this site are other bar owners afraid of the competition because I only go to Sonny’s and the rest of the bars in MT Washington are not safe in my eyes. To the owners of Sonny’s I just want to say that we are here for you and will continue to support the bar no matter what these people are trying to say cause your dedicated patrons willl stick beside you.
June 24th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Only time will tell if the owners of Sonny’s are more than “all talk no action.” They can use this site to promote whatever positive changes they are making. We would be happy to help them discuss the improvements they are trying to make. If they even think they need to improve, which is the whole point of this discussion I think. Self Awareness! The fact that they were surprised, actually surprises me. I said it before, 99% of the 15211 wasn’t surprised at all that this event took place there.
So sorry if you feel we are bashing Sonny’s. I gave up on Sonny’s after they tried to stop Packs and Dogs from obtaining a liquor license. Their only argument was “competition”…. please. Any business owner should expect and accept competition as a way of life. If you are worried about competition then you know deep down your product sucks and you don’t want to put the time/money into improving it.
I’m sick of hearing people come to their defense because they are saying that this could have happened anywhere. Could of, Should of, Would of…. well it didn’t.. it happened at Sonny’s and it’s time they took responsiblily for it and quit being so defensive.
June 24th, 2008 at 9:43 am
No one is trying to run any one out of business … the idea here is the rising tide causes ALL of the boats to rise…. so all businesses can benefit …
PS - I was only in sonny’s once, and someone tried to sell me bootleg copies of DVDs …
so….
June 24th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I have lived in Mt. Washington for 30 years. I have watched the neighborhood get worse and I have also watched businesses close. If you watch the news you will see that violence and drugs are EVERYWHERE! Mt. Washington is not really a rich neighborhood. There may be some people with money but mostly it’s just blue collar 9 to 5 working people. I have two small children. Am I afraid to walk them down the street? No! We stop at Sonny’s while trick-or-treating every year. I teach my children not to judge people based on what they look like, or the color of their skin. I was at the community meeting and a woman asked the officer what it would take to get Sonny’s on a nuisance bar list. The officer told her that it was up to the police dept. So my question is why is there a number posted to get Sonny’s on that list? People don’t listen. The police officer said that they don’t get any calls to Sonny’s and he’s in charge of the 3 to 11 shift. If you ask me, this whole thing is a witch hunt. Does everyone know that the owner of Sonny’s is involved in the community? When we used to have bingo on Sweetbriar St. the owner of Sonny’s was a big part of getting that done. She always made sure that “Santa” came to the kid’s bingo. So instead of bashing Sonny’s (yes it is bashing), let’s all come together to make this neighborhood safer.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I find it crazy that many of you commenting on this issue blame Sonny’s bar for all of this. Like how someone said that “THEY” feel at home at Sonny’s and not other places like Nakama or other Larger Bars in the area. Meanwhile you can walk into Nakama, any bar at Station Square or many of the bars in the south side and run into the drug dealers and like problems any night of the week. Or how bout the Strip District where there is a constant presence of law enforcment but there are still constant problems. Stupid cowardly people do stupid cowardly acts.
I was present and probably less than 10 feet from the incident and i know i have never seen either individual there before. I am there pretty regular on Wednesday for wings and a few beers and people have always been friendly with me and anyone else i have been there with. No one has ever tried to sell me anything or ask me for anything. Some people need to quit listening to everything they hear and come out of there bubbles.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I seriously cannot believe that some of the people commenting on here don’t think Sonny’s is a nuisance bar… obvisously they are friends if not the owners of Sonny’s.
So lets be honest on this site for once.
Here is my soon to be famous list of businesses that are holding this neighborhood back in no particular order, not all nuisance bars but just bad businesses that need to go.
Sonny’s Place
Sloppy Joes
Golden Palace
Hot Rod Cafe
Fox’s Pizza
CoGo’s (on Bailey)
Christines Diner, (or what ever the hell it’s called because they have no signs)
Lucky Bucks
Nikos
So if you’re tired of B-Sing around, add to this list! I’m sure I missed some.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
not blaming them for the shooting… blaming them for running a nuisance bar that attracks people that commit homicides. Like LOTM said, we would just like to see them take a little pride in their business and raise the bar a bit.
we aren’t asking them to leave (although my knee jerk was to just get rid of the place for ever, i’ll admit it) we just want them to understand that most of the community up here thinks that place is a dive bar. if it’s not, like you claim, why do we think that? Obviously it’s a reputation that has stuck with it for years. But not all is lost, they can recover, and we’ll be right there helping if they want the help, because a better Sonny’s makes for a better Mt. Washington.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Steve-O
Are you serious?
Soooo in other words, you feel that every single business (excluding Grandview) needs to go?
I guess I wouldn’t expect an intelligent response from someone who openly admits his friends are all pot heads…..
June 24th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Just keeping it real my friend.. just keeping it real. Of course I would like to see them all replaced with well thought out, responsible businesses. Not chains necessarily, but quality shops.
And not all of my friends are pot heads. Some are drunks, some are bi-polar, some are gay, a few are normal. You know. Like you.
Please tell me you like Golden Palace then. That place is nasty and it’s in a prime spot on Shiloh. It needs to go bad. And yes I have eaten there and yes I know the food there is bad. God why am I the only honest one on here?
While we are at it. Did anyone figure out who the other board member is that supported Sonny’s at the meeting the other night. ???
June 24th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Steve O: Its possible, not sure yet, that Fox’s might be off that list. The owner just let his employee go that the neighbors told him was selling drugs. We will see. 15211, I agree. Sonnys can recover, but they have to be willing to cleanup, the front door is filthy, better lighting. good food, new sign, new awnings. It actually could attract visitors to that part of Shiloh. Its up to you Sonny’s.
June 24th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Steve-o
While we are at it why dont we close PNC bank, Foodland, and hell even the Fire Station. I was there and witnessed people banging on the door of the fire station trying to get help. No Answer. Or the gas stations. Why dont we just close all of Mt. Washington except for the lookout area so we can all stand up there and watch over the rest of the problem people and businesses. Your out of your mind and must have a serious grudge for some reason. Maybe you were escorted out trying to get your stash. Or maybe taking product in. Maybe we should close the funeral home as well its promoting death! Get real buddy!
June 24th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
See you missed my point completely. Figures.
Let me spell it out for you. NUISANCE!
I don’t want to get rid of RESPONSIBLE business with RESPONSIBLE business owners. PNC Bank is a bank. Foodland is a constantly packed grocery store, and you dare insult our brave Firefighters? Now you’re getting personal.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
No one is pushing blame or stating bad things about firefighters im trying to make a point that you think businesses should close because some cowards decide to take up there problems at a public locations. If this would have happened at the park would you want the park tore up and dismantled. I bet these same indivduals have been in the Foodland before. It seems im not the only one missing points today. What im trying to say is that this incident could have happened at any place that these were at. What do you want the owner to do have an FBI agent present to run background checks on each person that enters the bar. Because then maybe we will be able to keep pot heads from coming there bugging patrons trying to enjoy a drink and wings. Or maybe all of you that say we need to stand up and fight this should start to frequent these establishments to try and turn the wheels of clientele that come in. Because it seems that you all want so much change and your only answers are to close places where many residents have gone for years with no problem. Maybe some can start by turning their own friends away or by showing up themselves to assist in changing the atmosphere.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Sorry forgot the word “Coward” at the end of line 5!
June 24th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
I dont see why people cant understand that this was a random act of violence that could have taken place anywhere, and yes even in Mt. Washington. The owners could not have seen this coming no did there that night trust me. Everyone seemed to be having a nice night enjoying themselves and their company when this happened. Why dont people quit pushing blame everywhere and start pointing at the individuals that were involved. Thats where it belongs. Not one person has said that yet! Im quite sure the owners did not witness a guy come in the bar waving a firearm and then offer him a drink on the house if he fired at people in the bar.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I agree that this shooting could have happened anywhere … and I think many people you are responding to felt that Sonny’s was a nuisance BEFORE this shooting took place.
So really this incident is merely a catalyst for this discussion, and not the primary reason why people are not fans of Sonny’s.
I think we all want the Mount to be a great place (and i think it is a great place even with the shootings) but we do have alot of diversity up here, and like it or not the people that hang out at sonny’s ARE a part of the fabric of our neighborhood…
With that said, if I was taking an out-of-town friend on a tour of where I live I would not take them past Sonny’s …
June 24th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Well said, thankyou.
June 24th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
15211 Advocate,
I’m not sure where you get your info from but “competition” was not the reason that people did not want Packs and Dogs on Shiloh. The real reason is that there are plenty of places on Shiloh where you can go and buy a 6 pack. I thought the MWCDC said that there are enough taverns up here and we needed other types of businesses in the community.
June 24th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I was there, competition was their primary argument. Now that Packs and Dogs is open, you can now buy more than just IC Light. You can buy real beer. Beer is good. Shootings are bad.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Competition is the words i heard on TV as well on the city channel. None the less, I agree with Steve-o for once in my life. I think what he (she) is saying is that the businesses listed are not making the best impression on visitors or residents. I live here and would never think of going to hot rod’s, I really have tried to support Golden Palace, but it really is bad food, lucky bucks isnt awful but it rarely has anything in there that i need or would buy as a gift. There is plenty of potential here that isnt being realized by the mediocrity of these apathetic business owners. I am all for local, independent, Mom and Pop establishments, but they are really lacking in the products and services that they offer. However, Sonnys and Sloppy Joes have just got to go so that we have available places for more decent places to move into and arent bringing down perceptions of our neighborhood.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
I think there are many salient points being made on this thread, albeit with a little to much finger pointing. I agree that we need a concerted effort to make Shiloh into something more useful and that we can all be proud of. By useful I mean more things that the community needs but that also will serve to bring the many tourists into the community to spend their money and time.
It is evident that there are to may bars but they all seem to be doing well so they will probably stay around, as far as Golden palace is concerned it could be rennovated to fit in one third of the space and we would have space for something new, and hopefully a face lift for the streetface.
The other problem may be that there are so many doctors,lawyers etc on the street. It has been suggested many times that if we built a professional building on Virginia near the senior center then all of these professional businesses could move into one nice new building that would serve the population and professionals while opening up prime retail space for the things that make a retail district fun, fashionable and profitable.
As for Sonny’s it would be nice to see it get a face lift, but you cannot blame them for what happened, it could have happened anywhere. Maybe if more of us went into Sonnys we could not only raise the client base but get some real face time with the owners to see if they really want to make the place better.
Just some food for thought.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Mt. Dog, I could only think of one doctor and one attorney on shiloh st. Who am I missing?
June 26th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
There is an oral surgeon and a podiatrist, I guess my point is these non-retail uses could be moved into a professional/medical building and some spaces could open up for other things more Shilioh friendly.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this on here yet.. but why not make a big deal out of the FOUR now empty plots surrounded by chain link fences (across from Cestones, next to the church, next to the church rectory, and next to Monteray Bay). Those are not only an eye sore but they are a nuisance of a rat haven and are in PRIME locations along grandview ave. Those areas need to attended to!
June 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
PO on Augusta:
If you do a search on this site for “zoning” and “Virginia Avenue” you’ll get a little bit of background on why the properties on Virginia became an eyesore. Dick Pirain owns Cestone’s as well as the properties across from Cestone’s and years ago he had a plan for retail and housing development. He even held a contest to find out what kind of retail residents would like to see (coffee shop, a gym, etc). He was defeated at every turn by a small, but vocal minority and eventually gave up. And he didn’t have any real legal recourse because of the antiquated zoning laws.
More recently, the zoning on Virginia Avenue was modified to reflect a new vision for Mt. Washington. LNC zoning is essentially commercial zoning, but with some restrictions (no drive-through fast food joints, strip clubs) and allows for a bit of community input. Mr. Pirain and the Wallace family, who also own property on Virginia, have committed to investing in the community now by developing their properties. I think they will live up to their word.
As far as the property on Grandview near Monterey Bay, a story ran about that in the Trib yesterday. You can access it via the links at the top under “Latest News”.
MG
June 26th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
a gym would be great… right now i go to a gym in crafton (ive been going there for years and really like it) and its really inconvienent to go to crafton to lift
June 27th, 2008 at 1:17 am
TO all OF you wanting Sonny’s to take some action in regards to the shooting. Well I went to Sonny’s on Wednesday night for wings and yes there stood this big white guy in full uniform armed with a firearm there to protect the patrons at Sonny’s. Not that anything happened that night but I think they just want to let everyone know they are doing whatever it takes to make sure that an event like this does not happen again. And to all the people bashing sonny’s patrons and bar owners do you really think that they would bring a law enforcement officer into their establishment if they have illegal things happening in their bar. I would say NO!!! But needles to say the Security was there for the four hours that I was there and it is sad that nobody has commented to the fact that they had an armed man at their door. So What can you say now cause you want them to step up to the plate well if you ask me they hit the ball right out of the park.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:52 am
I find it interesting that the last couple comments from Sonnys friends are posted after 1 am.
June 27th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I would think that they have a uniformed officer there because DO have shady stuff going on ,…. and officer would be there to stop it …
Faulty logic aside ….. Thanks for the update and GREAT WORK on making a step in the right direction …
June 27th, 2008 at 11:24 am
To PO on Augusta –
There IS a workout on Mt. Washington every Tuesday and Thursday night from 6-7 at the old St. Mary’s gym. It’s called Body Effort and is a real challenging workout with upper body work, abs, legs, the whole bit. It’s $88 for two months. No equipment there . . .
it’s more of a class. But does anyone remember a good gym on Southern Avenue back in the 90s, next to the old Tambellini’s . . . with weights AND exercise classes? It was great… and convenient.
As far as The Golden Palace . . . when I’m sitting on Redbeard’s patio, I never see anyone go in OR out of there. I’ve lived on The Mount since 1978 and it’s been there the whole time. How is it able to stay open?????
June 27th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
What about the police? Instead of trying to figure out what business you people want to close, why don’t you all fight for more police in the area? There are never any police up here. Are they not the ones really responsible for the reason why we continue to have so much crime here? Quit trying to close down every business because if you think we have crime now… wait and see what we have in a closed down neighborhood!!!
June 28th, 2008 at 1:23 am
To MEM first of I am a single mother raising a three year old with Autism so when i do get my time it tends to be after 1am as I need to get my child to sleep and house work Etc done before I get to go on the computer. I want all of you to know that I am not even a resident of MT Washington but yet I care about your community
June 28th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
A friend of Sonny’s, I’m happy you care for our community. Most of us here do too. The owners are now promising to support the community they live and own a business in. They are only steps from the community office. We were told they used to be involved in bingo 2 years ago. Not sure if that helped the MWCDC or not. A few of us walked by last week and were shocked at the garbage and condition of the entrance. Hopefully, they are willing to change all that and it could become a stopping point for all the tourist and visitors walking down Shiloh. Could they start advertising their specials. I heard they have wing night on Wednesday? Are there tables to sit and eat. Can I bring children?!
June 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
This was in the Post-Gazzette Wednesday, June 25, 2008, Letters to the editor.
We must stop killing each other.
A letter to my black men:
My granddaughter’s dad, Brandon Alton, was killed tonight (June 19). He was shot in Mount Washington at a bar. The bullet hit directly in his heart. He has stepped into eternity and our hearts are grieved.
His life was not taken by a racist cop or an unlikely accident. He was killed by a misguided man who somehow thought that this was the way to settle a dispute.
Our men of color kill each other with no remorse and we are left in fear to grieve. When will this stop? How many have to die? This young man was a leader who was working to end the feud between Beltzhoover and St. Clair Village.
Why must another child grow up with no father? Why did we get free from slavery and oppression to start killing each other? Why is the biggest threat to a black man another black man? I can only weep as I share his mother’s pain. Nothing can restore the love that we have lost. Nothing can stop our tears.
Young men, please, learn your history, learn what we have overcome. The streets are an all-too-familiar gravesite. We want you to live. You have no right to take what you cannot return. You have taken a father from two children, you have taken a son from two parents, you have taken someone’s brother. As a people, we cannot survive if we continue to self-destruct.
I cry tonight for all of us, I cry for you.
ANTIONETTE JONES
Spring Garden
NOTHING TO DO WITH SONNY’S !!!!!!!!!!!!
I have alot more to about 15211 and this site
Zorro
June 29th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Several people contacted us about a drug bust at Sonny’s the same week of the shooting. If we can substantiate these claims, we’ll write about it.
MG
June 30th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
RE Golden Palace
ive gone in there to eat once and have gotten delivery from there multiple times, i think its one of the better chinese take out places in the area
July 1st, 2008 at 4:22 pm
PO on Augusta:
I’ve eaten there on several occasions, and have ordered take out as well (which I must admit, is not as good as eating-in). I like the Golden Palace! And I think it’s great to have it as an option in the Mount, other then pizza and bar food I don’t understand what the big stink is about that place on here. And the waiter, hilarious, thank you.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
one time i ordered from Golden Palace and didnt realize i had no cash and since they delivered to my house so much at the time (had two roomates who ordered a ton also) they accepted a personal check for delivery… who does that? and the waiter.. yes… hilarious
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:45 am
GRANDVIEW GIRL
I just wanted to let you know that Sonny’s Place is very involved and was very active at the events that were held at the community center located on Sweetbriar street I only know cause i Volunteered at some of the events as well I know they donated alot of stuff for the childrens bingo night at the races and community days and the reason i know is cause they would publicize those businesses that did donate. And as for specials i will be at the bar this weekend and will ask the owners about putting things maybe on this site about specials but yes wednesday night is wing night and they are realllly good. But they do have seats at the bar but yeah no kids as they are serving liquor as well but I am sure they offer take out . So that way you can take some home I do know there is a DJ on fridays nights but as for specials I am not sure but will see what I can do
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:14 am
To Grandview Girl:
I would hesitate to say Sonny’s wings are take-out. A lot of Wing Nights are eat-in only. But I don’t know for sure.
Personally, I don’t see what’s so “shocking” about the “condition of the entrance.” Instead of just walking by . . . . why don’t you start to frequent the place? If enough of you did . . . . who knows? That could bring about the change you’d like to see. And you might even enjoy yourselves in the process. Have a Safe and Happy Fourth.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
before one of you people judge sonnys bar and owners you should know them first.Family owned and operated for 25 years.how many business can said that(not many)Did you ever go in Sonnys ?Did you ever meet the owners? After you do that,then judge them.You might be suprised.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Sonny’s Place allows 15 year old kids to hang out in their bar?
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_577696.html
This is clearly a NUISANCE bar that needs to be shut down. I doubt these kids would get served in the other establishments on Shiloh. These underage thugs need to stay in their own neighborhood. Serving them alcohol will only encourage them and their underage thug friends to hang out in our neighborhood.
July 15th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
From what I’ve heard from the “old timers” Sonnys had been notorious for serving under age kids. Way back when,they used to be cited all the time. I understand they just painted the front of their place.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Actually, you don’t know for a fact that the 15-year-old was actually served alcohol in there, do you? I think it’s unfair to say that Sonny’s “allows 15-year-olds to hang out in their bar.”
I’m more concerned about why this teenager was so misguided, how he was able to obtain a firearm, and what his home life may have been like.
Another mother loses a son. . . . . .
July 15th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Wow. Just read the article that it was a 15 year old kid inside Sonny’s who shot Brandon Alton. Not surprised, yet angered. I have two teenagers and can’t imagine someone letting them inside of a bar after midnight. (I can’t imagine that they would be out after midnight.)
I’m new to this thread,(but have liver here for 19 years) and couldn’t help but reading the past posts wonder why Steve-O is against half of the businesses in Mt. Washington!
I eat in and take my children to eat in Christina’s Diner on a regular basis at all different times of the day and night. Yes, there are people who come in to eat after the bars are closing that may be a little shady themselves, but it doesn’t make that establishment shady.I’ve seen them ask people to leave there who are making problems.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Where is Christina’s Diner? Is that the place with no name at boggs and bailey? If it is I would’nt go in there if I was starving! They used to soak their potatoes in the womens bathroom. The health dept was called there last year and I heard they have a poker machine in back!! Anyhow, I heard that whole building was recently sold and they will be gone in 30 days……
July 15th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
15 year old in a bar after midnight.. and they still won’t take responsiblity. Pathetic.
Hey North Side. Stay out of my neighborhood! Sonny’s would do well there I’m sure.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
ssb70-I am so tired of hearing about the misguided youth of today. There are more places and free programming for these kids than ever before. Thats not our problem if their parents are not home. Haven’t they ever heard of birth control!! These dregs of society need to be really punished and maybe they would think twice about doing it again.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
It’s a shame that this community, this city, this beutiful country of ours has change so much. Citizens don’t you realize that the people, the people is the cause of so much pain…Parents can’t control their children, Children love there suppose to be friends more then their parents. When you see a bunch of kids together after a certain time at night, cussing, argueing, throwing trash in your yard with drugs in there pocket selling them in our stores, Street corners,House’s what do we do, call 311 and sometime receive no immediate help because our brave officers are doing there job elsewhere. They sometime can”t respone to a call immediately. If we try and help someone we are the ones with our hands on the police car..some of our citizens go on sites such as this to complain and nothing really gets done. You know this and still we can’t come together to enforce our children in becoming better citizens. Children shooting children for no reason, killing teachers, policeman, Have we not learn a thing? Something is wrong, You want to know what it is, Faith was taken out of our schools, Children can sue a parent for chastising them, and have a nerve to have a jury. Have some of us stop watching how our sons and daughters dress? Who is in control? Think about it, truth is our enemy because we don’t want to see it or hear it but we can argue about who is right and ,who is wrong all dayand still we get nowhere. It’s not about color or race it”s about US.When you take away the skin and the hair, we all look alike and that is a fact. Our thinking is what hads some people passing the buck and that is why our society is so far apart. This is my words and I hope that someone will understand that we don’t have to run from a fight, Numbers is strength. Come together as ONE voice and you will see that we can win.
Have a safe and bless day because tomorrow is’nt promise to any of us. The time is 4:47 pm…..Take CARE and love one another and perhaps tomorrow will be a better day.
July 15th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Amamda,
please let me know who was soaking potatoes in the womens room and when the health department was ever there because the owners would love to hear about it.
Furthermore, there is a name right on the building……… all you have to do is look above the windows!
Instead of spreading viscious rumors about a neighborhood diner, walk in and look at all the certificates FROM the health department and stop listening to garbage talk.
how absurd.
July 15th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
My friend and I personally witnessed this in the Ladies Room regarding the potatoes. Its not a rumor, the present owners were probably not the ones that did it. The diner has changed managers a number of times over the years so we really never knew the name of the place. The health dept. was notified, weather they were cited we will never know. But it really doesn’t matter, because it will be closing soon.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
The name has been missing for a while now. It was “Colleen’s” then “LisaLynns.” I can’t remember the last time the name was on the building but it has been some time.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
As far as I’m concerned, the last thing that portion of Mt. Washington needs is a diner open 24 hrs. And the COGOS open 24 hrs is insane. That’s the problem. I live on Ruth St and I feel both should be shut down or closed down at a resonable hour.
My husband was there getting tums and some random drunk or high woman leaned on his car and wouldn’t move. UNACCEPTABLE. Where are the cops?
July 16th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Thankyou Melissa I was going to drive by there today to find the name of the diner, I thought maybe I’ve not been looking in the right place. Round Lady thank you too! A lot of us can’t wait till its closed in 30 days.They never cleaned the front of their place. Some real “questionable”people went in there. I understand the people that bought the building are trying to change that whole area around! So Good Riddance to Christina’s and Colleen’s and LisaLynns. Go to J J’s its so much cleaner and a really good breakfast!
July 16th, 2008 at 9:59 am
I’m sorry, Amanda, but regarding the 15-year-old shooter — you say:
“Thats not our problem if their parents are not home.”
Don’t you see? It has indeed become our problem.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:37 am
are you saying that the CoGo’s is closing in 30 days?
July 16th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Hello All,
I agree that the diner needed to be closed — the 30 day eviction is great! However, rumor is and the major PROBLEM is that the diner is relocating – on Boggs. Where to you ask – one block away in the Laundromat building. Right across the street is the Hot Rod bar — give us a break! The building is not suitable for a diner – the inside space is not big enough — the building needs to be razed – it has been an eyesore and a problem for far too long.
I worked in that building when I was young and I can tell you that it isn’t large enough – there are no restrooms and there is one front room and a back room. The building was once one huge bar named Fouse’s, then in the early 80’s it was sold and converted into a deli and Laundromat. The deli lasted until 1987, and M. Ardolino’s pizza moved in and only lasted a year. It sat vacant for some time and then Cumps Pizza moved in and closed, another pizza joint, closed, another pizza joint closed, and the last one – ah closed! Yes, five pizza places — do you get the pattern here? Not a suitable place for any business. The Laundromat has been a problem and will continue to be a problem until someone takes interest and razes the building!
The owners of 7,9,11 Boggs are doing the area a great service and will certainly raise standards in the area – as they already have demonstrated — but the problem clientele will be closer to the more residential part of Boggs Avenue and that is unacceptable. My 85-year-old grandmother lives five houses down and she is greatly disturbed by the rumor that the diner is relocating. So what are the residents supposed to do – sit back and watch another decade of destructive behavior happen to their part of Boggs? I know all of my family and the neighbors on Boggs are on alert!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am
No, Advocate, I think they are talking about the building that houses the diner. The antique store finally closed next door. So maybe the diner is next. I wonder if the couple that owns the large home (with a disco) where the fundraiser took place will purchase it. I believe those gentlemen purchased the apartment buildings next to Newton Insurance and are upgrading them. And they may have also purchased the duplexes right across the street from their own home, which are being remodeled and are really coming along nicely.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:47 am
ok so the CoGo’s isn’t closing…..damn.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Just to clear any confusion. The building that was just sold is where the antique store used to be and the diner that had no name. Hopefully, the next to go is where the “art studio” is. It used to be a hardware store. Maybe tear it down and put a parking lot.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I remember talking to someone who used to be with MWCDC and he was all excited about that art gallery coming. Hmmmm. It isn’t quite what I expected. I think the building’s exterior needs to be spruced up a bit
July 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Hi All,
The building that was just purchased is 7,9,11 Boggs Avenue — when I was on the MWCDC board I was involved with the facade process for Mr. Deal — unfortunately the space was not utilized for purposes that would appeal to a broad spectrum of residents. Eve’s antique’s was owned by Mr. Deal’s daughter, the upstairs of the building was never remodeled after a fire in 1985 — but the down stairs was where we put pressure on Mr. Deal. We couldn’t move him past renting to undesirable greasy spoon operators – it was unfortunate. When the facade was completed it was clean and neat looking — with the new windows — three trees — yes there was three. The son of a former worker decided to go out and cut down the first tree in front of the restaurant so that people could park on the sidewalk. We had the tree replaced and those same people drove a truck over the new tree and then a while later knocked down the tree in the middle for parking – of course.
The CoGo’s was useful when it first opened in 1977 as the Stop N’ Go which was located in the Medicine Shoppe. It has served its purpose — but I do agree that it needs to close at a decent hour – let’s compromise and say midnight. CoGo’s is useful for the residents in St. Justin’s Plaza and for all of us who may run out of milk or bread.
A transformation must happen and I believe that it is in the works with a business district vision – or at least I hope so? While we are the subject we can do without Fox’s! My hope is that the guys buy the hardware store and raze it!
July 16th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Melissa, I agree with everthing you have said except Fox’s. They recently let go one of their problem employees, who a lot of people said was selling drugs. I understand its been real quiet there now. They have always contributed pizza to any event or fundrasier. The neighbors that attended the blockwatch were impressed by their committment to the community. We shall see. I also understand an undercover cop is assigned to COGO’s. So I have my fingers crossed.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Amanda,
Well, if Fox’s is a contributor and supporter of the community then I would say it is a good business. My issue is the condition of the building which attracts undesirables. Mr. Guinta was supposed to apply for a façade grant when I was on the MWCDC board but we couldn’t get him to commit. The building has been in disrepair since I was a child. We used to have a beer distributor there and it served the community well – then a video store – and then Fox’s – my point is it’s a good location – there is some parking – we just need to be vigilant about reporting the crime and at some point Mr. Guinta may come around and take pride in his property!
July 16th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Speaking of condition of a building, how can we get the owner of the old hardware store, Boggs and Wyoming, to either put some money into it or sell it. Does anyone know his name? Does he own other properties? Where does he live?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I live in the Boggs-Bailey area myself and was very happy when La Tavola opened because I used to go buy and see the well-dressed clientele seated at the little outside tables on summer evenings. I was hoping we were on our way to get our own little hip business district back there.
I, for one, think CoGos should remain because I get off work on Saturday nights close to midnight, and aside from the lower CoGos, there’s nowhere on the Mount to pop in and get a soda, milk, cigarettes, etc. I’ve never had a bad experience in there.
As for the former hardware store, rather than it becoming a parking lot . . . surely someone could come up with a good business use for it. How about a little used furniture store?
July 16th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I apologize for stating that the business name of the diner was above the windows, because you are correct in stating that it is no longer there. However, you are all INCORRECT on a bunch of ‘Rumors’ you have just posted here.
Number one, the diner was NOT given an eviction notice and will not be gone in 30 days.They have a lease that lasts into late summer and the new owners actually wanted them to re-up their lease (Yes, that’s right, they wanted them to stay there.) Unfortunately, the new owners wanted to close the diner for a few months while they remodeled the entire building, and if you know anything at all about running a business, a few months even is enough to kill your profits and return customers. The diner IS moving to the Laundromat building, that is true, but not in 30 days because they were evicted. Furthermore, instead of worrying about the fact that there are no bathrooms in there, realize that a responsible business owner will build bathrooms.
Speaking of bathrooms……. you yourself witnessed an employee in the bathroom with potatoes? The bathrooms in the diner are barely big enough for a person to turn around in, but you were in there as well and saw someone do this? And how did your first post go from you KNOWING they were cited to your next post saying I KNOW THEY WERE CALLED?
There is NO poker machine in the diner. The diner has NEVER been cited by the health department, and the ’shady’ people that are being discussed mostly come from St. Justin’s Plaza throughout the daytime hours. Yes, that’s right. If you’re going to balme them for housing shady people and illegal activities, you’re looking to most of the eighty year olds of our community.
The current owners are a responsible couple who have mostly family members working there for them. What an unfortunate situation they’re in with all these rumors flying around about how ‘bad’ it is.
If you don’t want to go there and eat, don’t! But if you do, try their mac-n-chesse triangles. All the kids love them!
Instead of being upset over GREAT, JUST WHAT WE NEED A 24 HOUR DINER, realize there has been a 24 hour diner in that spot for more than 20 years. Has it passed owners ? Sure! All people are not the same, we as adults should all know that.
When I go somewhere I like, I’m in it for the long haul. I would argue the same if you were discussing any business that I currently frequent.
Why not ask the police who eat in the diner EVERY day what a nuisance it is? I’m sure that might help you out!
July 16th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
ssb70: We cannot attract good developers or businesses without available parking. There used to be a little business where the hardware store was. We orginally thought it would be a nice idea but the stuff was really old. There is nice junk and bad junk. He had really bad junk… He then started blocking the sidewalk in front with his stuff and people had to walk on the street. I heard the building needs lots of work, new wiring, plumbing, etc. etc.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
yikes, give the girl a xanax. she probably goes to sonnys too.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
STOP right there! I just got caught up in the rumor mill — but it wasn’t from what I have read on this post — my information came from