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Are you kidding me with this!? Shiloh Planters
by 15211Advocate ~ April 24th, 2008. Filed under: Blight, Crime, Litter.This morning I saw this on Shiloh:
Late last night a vandal or group of vandals made the decision to knock over 3 of the planters on Shiloh St. Why would they do this? That is the question of the century I think. I’m starting to think that we shouldn’t even give these idiots to opportunity to be idiots and get rid of the planters because this isn’t the first time this has happened.
During the summer these planters do add a lot to the beauty of Shiloh St. and some other parts of the Mt. Washington business district. But these planters also cause some problems. They have been a point of controversy since they were put out a couple of years ago.
The question is what to do with them. I say we get rid of them or give them to home owners and businesses off of Shiloh and other high foot traffic areas. Any other ideas out there?
April 24th, 2008 at 10:32 am
15211,
We CANNOT get rid of these planters!!! If we do, don’t THEY win???? Completely unacceptable.
I am as infuriated as you are about this incident but think that the planters bring more good to our community than bad. They look great in the summer, help to soften our hard streetscape and the business owners (thankfully) have taken ownership and pride in taking care of them. The good certainly out weighs the few incidences that we’ve experienced over the past few years. I do agree that it is frustrating but the answer isn’t to remove them from our business district.
We unfortunately will continue to get hit by vandals. Sad but true. But we CAN’T recoil and let them have OUR community! We must continue to fight a good fight, report all incidences to the local authorities and continue to better our community.
Kim
April 24th, 2008 at 11:21 am
No offense to anyone that has fought to keep these on Shiloh, but just the other day when my wife and I were cleaning Shiloh for 2 hours we had 3 different people come up to us and ask what we were going to do about the planters. One senior lady asked us to get rid of them because they cause access problems and she can’t get around them well with her walker. I saw it first hand so I kind of understand.
I think we need cameras on Shiloh and all the business districts so when this happens we can view the tape and give it to the police.
I don’t think it’s them winning…the people that turn these over and cause problems don’t have IQ’s big enough to know the difference between winning and losing.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Kim:
It makes me angry too. And and I agree that we cannot allow thoughtless, destructive people to take over our community. It’s my understanding though that these planters were purchased before someone was responsible for managing the overall vision of the business district. At the time, they were probably a good idea for all of the reasons you mention. Now that there is a master plan in existence, perhaps we should use that as a guide and look at everything we put in the business district as part of a larger picture.
Do these planters belong anymore? They are difficult to maintain. People seem to think they’re either garbage cans or ashtrays. Some of the businesses have refused to take responsibility for making them look presentable. Additionally, where sidewalks are uneven and narrow in certain places, they prohibit walkers, wheelchairs, and strollers from getting past. I understand they were an investment, but perhaps they’ve served their purpose.
MG
April 24th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
MG and Bobby,
Granted there was a misunderstanding of ownership when the planters were first installed. But the CDC clarified that with the business owners and now they (for the most part) are taking very good care of them. Don’t you recall how beautiful they were last summer? Tall ornamental grasses with petunias and vines trailing to the ground? I do agree that the planters are often times used as ashtrays and garbage receptacles but have hope that someday this issue will be rectified as well. One problem at a time.
I don’t believe that any business owner has refused to take care of the planters but will check and get back to you. It was my understanding that this was taken care of last spring.
Unless someone has moved the planters, I can’t imagine that the CDC would place a planter on the sidewalk without being ADA compliant.
To answer your question: Do these planters belong any more? ABSOLUTELY! They should be kept in place until newer/better ones can be added that support the new master plan. In fact, moving forward ALL decisions should reflect the master plan.
If the planters aren’t kept up to our personal standards then maybe we can find a volunteer that will supplement the care that is provided by the business owners? Anyone interested?
Kim
April 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
i like the camera idea
April 24th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I also like the camera idea, but I think we need to increase security overall. Having a police presence cruising the area on a more regular basis would help deter the vandals and taggers.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Every other community that I’ve visited in Pittsburgh has flower boxes. Why is everything such a big deal in Mt. Washington. I agree with Kim they looked beautiful last summer. They only improve our little business community. If you see beer cans, trash etc. in the planter boxes, instead of saying what a mess, CLEAN IT UP! Forget the camera idea, it is not that easy to do and besides that someone has to agree to monitor them, and some people can’t take care of one planter box, need I say more?!
April 24th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
this was a larger problem last night..whomever knocked over the planters also tried to pull up a trash can that was bolted to the ground. threw two planters in the tiny parklet by the parking garage and busted out one of J and J’s windows. So this is now a crime that is prosecutable i think.
I think cameras would work and you wouldn’t have to monitor them just have a tape recording everything so if something like this happens we could refer back to the tapes. The folks in the Strip are using them I think and they also have a beat cop down there that apparently is awesome and everyone loves and really helps out.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Let’s not get distracted by planters here. We have bigger fish to fry.
Frank Valenta has become an ineffective leader and needs to be ousted immediately.
Also, word around the council chambers is that Paul Renne is planning to run for City Council which would be the worst thing to happen to Mt. Washington since the steel mills shut down.
Let’s stay focused. Anyone else planning to run for City Council out there?
April 24th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I think we should all defer to a) the person, persons or organization that purchased the planters and b) the person, persons or organization that is/are ultimately responsible for their maintenance. I like the idea of beautifying our business district too, but I wonder…when our enthusiasm wanes for these planters who will be left holding the watering can?
One last thing, it’s tough to compare our business district to others in this situation. We don’t have a long straight main street set-up so we don’t have as much space to work with–maybe hanging baskets would be a better bet. They would add to the aesthetic, but not take up precious sidewalk space. I know this is a future goal.
MG
April 24th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
ya know … there is a silent issue we have that everyone seems to dance around …I hear things about the Renters/Section8/Vacant Landlords, I hear about the div bars, I hear about the trash, I hear about the vandals, I hear about the commercial district…
ya know who did this to the planters - PUNK KIDS….
Ya know who vandlizes stuff around the mount - PUNK KIDS
ya know who throws trash everywhere - PUNK KIDS
ya know who makes a ton of noise - you guessed it….
ya know who wont move out of the street when I’m driving …once again Punk kids
we never talk about the hoards of un attended kids that roam our neighborhood…I’m talking aged 10 -17 they’re every where,….
and they reak havoc….
Thoughts?
April 24th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
People let’s be proactive here… Instead of complaining about planters pushed over - pick them up. Maintenance is part of the community.
I put in a 311 about the vandalism, homeless, drunkeness on Shiloh. I encourage everyone to do the same.
I will and do call 911 for the “punk” kids.
If enough people call 311 for a beat cop maybe we will finally get a 24 hour shift up here on Shiloh and Grandview.
Also, aren’t there residents on Shiloh?? You mean to tell me no one heard this going on. I find it hard to believe. Speak up people.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
very true … I get a little “ranty” from time to time
and plus, I’m way to young to use the phrase “punk kids”
maybe I should shake my fist in the air when I say that
April 24th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Livin’ on Da Mount,
Love the rants and some kids deserve the title “punk” especially vandalizing kids.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
seriously - it DRIVES ME CRAZY … sometimes I’ll be at some community meeting where someone is complaining about vandalism or something along those lines and all I can think about is— I wonder if that person has kids, and who is watching them right now …
April 24th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Didn’t a group of residents work to re-open the Ream Center so that kids would have a place to go and something to do?
Does anyone know what their hours of operation are and what programs they offer?
MG
April 24th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I would say they are Kid Punks not Punk Kids. Once a punk always a punk. These are the same kids that will grow up to be Steeler lovin’, beer drinking, porch sofa sittin’, wife-beater t-shirt wearin’, fake Harley ridin’, cigarette smokin’, know it all punks that will never contribute to society or their community and because of that will never be able to afford to move the suburbs where they belong!
April 24th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Steve-O:
As I said in the past, I don’t want to unapprove comments, but I almost just did. I don’t know that attacking Mt. Washington children is productive to this discussion.
Aside from that, are we sure that local kids damaged the planters? Keep in mind, there are some not-so-reputable bars on Shiloh. And we’ve all seen shady characters stumbling drunk out of them. It could have been anyone. Cameras would stop this speculating.
MG
April 24th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
You are right Livin’. “Punk Kids” ARE responsible for the most of the issues we have up here. I agree with CTRN - people need to be more proactive when they see suspicious behavior. The solution is to Call 911. We have been told numerous times by the police that they need our help if we want to put an end to (or just even slow down) the vandalism.
If you don’t call and take action then you really don’t have a right to complain (or to expect a positive change).
April 24th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Thanks to one of the board members, the police were called and a report was taken, regarding the planters. EVERY act of vandalism should be reported to the police, no matter how small we think it is. Even graffitti…..!
April 24th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
My apologies for any un needed tension/ acusations… complaining never helps…but I too call 911 when I see it, and in my litte sub-neighborhood I also yell at the kids when I see them throw trash on the ground and I eagerly await the day I see someone tagging something
I’m not sure who said it .. but they were right - THIS IS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD - - and I’m not gonna let some Punk anyone take it over or scare me away
PERIOD
April 24th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
I agree. I feel there are too many people moving off the Mount. I know of a 2 couples that are moving this summer to the ‘burbs. We should start a C.O.P. program, you know, like in the Police Academy movie. Citizens On Patrol.
http://www.nacop.org/
April 24th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I see the opposite happening… people wanting to move back to the city. This is the time for us to show them how great this neighborhood WILL be and IS!
April 24th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
do we have access to detailed population trends?
i see this on city-data.com
for 15211-
Zip code population (2000): 12,477
Estimated population in 2005: 10,604
so the stats say we are losing people …but those are 3 years old too,,,,
anyone have better data ?
April 24th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
To me this is old info., people are and will start moving to the city for commuting reasons. Who wants to spend 45 minutes to an hour in a car to commute. At least for my generation, I see the suburb trend reversing back to the city.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
45 minutes and $45 dollars worth of gas every day!
April 24th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
i agreeo n the old data part…. and I think high gas prices work in our favor ….
if we could just get our city to understand that if they create a better tax environment for people and businesses in the city.(ie lower taxes) the difference would be made up by a higher tax base…
April 24th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Everyone has expressed some good ideas and i think that is the thing to focus on here. The planters were and are a great step towards making Shiloh look like a more cared-for place (and i know that hanging baskets have been suggested at one point or another and are a good idea at some point….but to over-use a phrase….Rome wasn’t built in a day!). Unfortunately, where there are people, there is vandalism. Pouring a foot of concrete in the bottom of the planters before filling them with soil and plants is an option - that sure would surprise someone if they tried to kick it over (then you could just look for the idiot with a cast on their foot the next day!). Of course, that would also make it more difficult for them to be moved by you all if need be. It is frustrating to try to continually improve things when senseless people are around to mess things up, but honestly, look at statistics that show how any kind of greeening increases property value and “curb appeal” and has postive correlations to physical and mental health issues (i can get some stats if anyone cares!). As for population stats, keep in mind that there are lags in data….so numbers from 2005 would reflect a trend that started at least a year or two before that. It will take time to see the upswing but people are indeed starting to see the value in moving back to the city - and cities in general. Some of the population decreases also have nothing to do with a particular community but are a reflection of an aging population, job market, etc…..which Mt. Washington itself has little to no control over. I can tell you that the Mt. is a jewel - as i am sure you all know. Keep up the great work.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:25 am
15211 and MG,
Could you please be more specific as to which planters are not ADA compliant? I checked out most of them last evening and it appears as if there is well over 36″ clear travel space. If there are one’s that don’t comply we should coordinate relocation with the CDC.
Thanks.
Kim
April 25th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Kim:
We weren’t commenting on the compliance with ADA. If the CDC purchased and placed the planters, I’m sure they’re perfectly compliant. I think everyone that commented (and correct me if I’m wrong folks) was referring to the practicality of maneuvering around the planters at certain points on the sidewalk where there may be other impediments (debris, parking meters, signs, etc.).
I tend to agree with a lot of others who alluded to the larger issue of the people knocking the planters over and vandalizing others things on Shiloh. We are in dire need of a beat cop. How can we make that happen?
MG
April 29th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Planters!!! The objects in the pictures look more like buckets—they are ugly, no form or grace. They look like discards from industrial products that had screw top lids attached at one point. No wonder people are using them for trash.
I love the idea of greening up the business districts (all of them). How about all the little land niches owned by the city also being planted and greened up. Suggestion: Hire two people to clean, plant and maintain the business districts and green niche areas. They could start work in the late afternoon and finish up with a sort of patrol (quasi-security) calling 911 when they see damage being done.
Of course, we’d have to find grant money that would pay for something other than “studies” and could actually accomplish something by funding their salaries. (I’d like to have a dollar for every study that was done and filed away with no follow up). Maybe even the possibility of a community benefits agreement (CBA) like the Hill District and the North Side are working towards could pay their salaries?
April 30th, 2008 at 6:53 am
Dear Circusvue,
Do you have any idea how hard the MWCDC has worked to bring these planters to our community? Not to mention the effort they put into planting and maintaining them?
Are the planters the aesthetic that I would select? NO. But let’s applaud the CDC for trying SOMETHING!
I’m sure that the CDC would appreciate any monetary donations, volunteer hours to help maintain greening of our business district or assistance with writing the grants that you mentioned. Please contact them if you are able to help out. It’s always easy to sit back and critic work done by others.
Kim
April 30th, 2008 at 11:53 am
One thing missing from the poll, shouldnt the business owners take care of the pot in front of their store? How hard could that possibly be. I am totally against hiring someone to take care of them.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Grandview Gal,
The business owners have been taking care of the planters in front of their establishments this past year. As mentioned before they are doing a great job.
Kim
April 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Kim,
Thanks for you latest comments. At the time those planters were purchased there wasnt anything of interest along the street other than a few struggling street trees. The planters were and effort to add some vitality to the streetscape that was non existent. However, hindsight is 20/20 and if I had the chance to do it all over again it would have been done differently. But something needed to be done to start the ball rolling. Mainstreet is an incremental process. Waiting for millions of dollars in funding for wholesale changes can create a perception that the area isnt cared for. Once again, I will invite people to attend the Mainstreet meetings the third Wednesday of every month where issues like this are discussed and solutions determined. The next meeting is May 21st, 6:00 at the MWCDC office, 301 Shiloh Street. In fact one of the major items on the agenda are the planters. It has already been discussed that the scope of planters are going to be minimized and perhaps measures like the ones offered by Banshee are necessary. One person had the idea of faux painting the planters so that they had a weathered terracotta appearance. Perhaps a low water use evergreen like Euonymus would look attractive all year round and could have annuals or ivy planted in them in the warmer months.
We also have approval from forestry to plant two shrubs on either side of the trees in the tree beds and a salt tolerant evergreen like a boxwood may be a good choice here. Your suggestions along with offer to help move/plant/maintain them are welcome and appreciated.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I will also add that the business district is all of ours. Its our town square, the place where we shop, run errands, interact with our neighbors, and meet friends for a bite to eat. The numerous tasks necessary to keep this area looking its best is not the sole responsibility of any one person or business owners, but one we all share. The Main Street in any neighborhood is most peoples first and perhaps only impression of a community. When a visitor experiences a place that is attractive, well cared for, has essential businesses, products and services as well sidewalk cafes and shops, they will return. Pehaps to spend money to keep our local economy going (that creates jobs), or perhaps to rent an apartment or buy a home. We are all in this together whether you join a committee, help to plant a planter, call 911, or pick up a piece of trash that should be thrown into a receptacle. It all adds up and every little bit helps.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
I would say the business owners have enough to worry about and shouldn’t be asked to take on one extra task. Especially if they didn’t ask for them to begin with, maybe they don’t like them or hear day in and day out how ugly they are or how in the way they are.
If Mainstreets put them out, then Mainstreets has to maintain them whether they are maintained by someone that is hired or by volunteers.
I personally like the idea of putting them out in the spring an taking them down in the fall. That way they aren’t in the way in the winter months when business owners are responsible for clearing their part of the sidewalks. The planters are in the way in the winter months, no doubt about that. If there is nowhere to store them.. then there might be only one choice left.
I like the idea of planting more shrubs in the tree beds. That could solve a lot of this issues.
I believe the business owners should be asked their opinions on this either at a meeting or one on one.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I do like the idea of putting them away in the winter (off season); however, I don’t think it is tough for business owners to take care of them while they sweep their front sidewalks in the morning… (oh wait - do they do that)?
April 30th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
exactly until the business owners take “ownership” of their business district and how it looks we shouldn’t reward them with too much help. Some of them won’t even take the time in the morning to pick up trash outside their establishment. It’s a shame but until we obtain more responsible owners this problem will linger.
Most of them probably don’t mind taking care of them in the summer months but find them a burden in the winter, I know I would. Where do you store them though?
April 30th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
I will volunteer to store them at my establishment’s basement over the fall/winter months.
I will of course need to have them emptied… not sure if they try to re-use the dirt…
April 30th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Are business owners even aware of the CDCs role in promoting area establishments?
Perhaps a meeting needs to take place in which someone from the CDC explains how they as a community organization exist (in part) to enhance the business owners’ efforts. In other words, the business owners need to know that it’s not the CDC’s responsibility to promote any one business. It seems that some of the business owners already get it and contribute accordingly, but some don’t.
MG
May 13th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
[…] Redd-ed Up Planters - Check […]
May 19th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Thank you Wallace Floral Shoppe. The entrance of your business on Virginia Ave. looks very pretty with your edition of flowers in the planters. Hope its contagious……..!
June 19th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
If we could get the funding for heavy cement planters they wouldn’t be able to be knocked over.